Do you remember when you were
born?
Yeah, so between the ages of zero to three is when we really learn, develop, establish our sense of safety and attachment. And who do we learn that with? With our primary caregivers. It could be a biological parent, an adoptive parent. It could be a guardian, a grandparent, what have you. It could be a foster parent, but either way, you're learning what attachment looks like, and felt safety comes with that attachment piece. When I cry, you come, you pick me up, you you hold me. I'm not scared that you're going to drop me, because you've never given me that reason to be scared of that before. So I feel safe. I feel like I can trust you. So that all begins between the ages of zero to three. I
would love to talk about parents for a second, because there's so much parenting advice now out there, there's this pressure to be like this perfect parent who's read all the books, who's done all the things, and then your child will be perfect, and your attachment will be perfect, and everything is just going to be so happy and wonderful. And it's this like crushing pressure. And so how do you walk people through the imperfect art of parenting?
I do not stray away from self disclosure.
Hello. Welcome to the lettuce loves you, the Podcast where we explore belonging and nourishment through the perceptions of body, Earth and community. I'm your host, Jeanell innerararity, and for over 25 years I've been helping people come home to themselves through somatic or body based practice, dream work, nature connection, and relationship with self, other humans, and spirit. I want to get beyond belonging as a buzzword and beyond nourishment as a fitness strategy, and get to the heart of what it really means to belong and what it really means to be nourished. Each of my guests has a unique take on these ideas, and I hope you'll take home a greater sense of what belonging and nourishment mean to you. I hope you benefit from listening to the lettuce loves you, and if you do, it would mean a great deal to me, if you would like rate and share the show so that more people can discover it and get the same benefit. Now let's dive into today's episode.
So welcome back to the lettuce loves you. I am so pleased today to have Jamie Watson joining me on the show. Jamie is a licensed marriage and family therapist, a registered play therapist, supervisor, a wife, a mom, a dog lover who happens to have a therapy dog, a golden doodle. So we're going to dive deep into golden doodles, because I also have a golden doodle who is not ready to be a therapy dog, although that was my vision. So she is young and wild. and [jamei is] also a wine enthusiast. So we'll circle back to that, because I have questions about that too. So Jamie, I'm so happy to have you here, and I'll share more about your bio in a second, but I just want to say welcome. Thanks for joining me.
Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be able to meet with you and just share all the yummy and wonderful dog things.
Yeah, this is going to be a fun episode, dogs and kids and play and wine. We'll have a good time.
Yeah, for sure. So,
Jamie, you're also a marriage and family therapist and LMFT in Oregon and Washington, and a mental health therapy director at the neurotherapeutic pediatric therapies Inc, I want to invite people to try to say that five times fast in Portland and surrounding areas and at the University of Western states, you teach play therapy, Pre-practicum human growth and development in the graduate Department of Counseling. And you're also a registered play therapist supervisor recognized by the Oregon board of licensed professional counselors and therapists, the Washington Department of Health and the American Association for Marriage and Family Therapists as an approved clinical supervisor. And not only that, you have additional training in foster and adoptive family therapy, parent, child interactive therapy, traumas, trauma focused therapy, and a specialization in child attachment and trauma. And you're currently serving as President of the Oregon Association for play therapy, and also involved in the board and ORAPT in some capacity for over a decade. Yeah. So joining us from Clackamas, Oregon, with you, have two young boys, a husband, a golden doodle who is a therapy dog, so I need to know more about getting to that stage with my golden doodle. And we'll share a lot more about how people can find you, but JamieWatsonconsulting.com is where people can learn more. And so that is quite a resume, and it really strikes me how thoroughly and professionally you've gone into the realm of play. Oh
yeah, yeah, for sure, I was listening to you read all of that stuff there. Wow, I've done a lot in my short career. Well, not so short. I've been in the career for 15 years. But yeah, play, play is serious and not so serious. So definitely a lot of play, both in my professional and personal life, hopefully, hopefully I could keep it in my personal life, I was, I know you really didn't ask a question, but I was in my bachelor's degree when I found out about play therapy, and I didn't really know what I wanted to do, but I took a blow off class, and the blow off class was play therapy, and somebody had told me, Oh, you just have to play with a bunch of kids and write a paper about it. And I was I nannied, I babysat. You know, that was my jam. I have five siblings. Like, no big deal. I can play with a kid and write about it. And I got assigned to a child at a Head Start program, and that child, right before I was supposed to show up and play got removed from his home, from DHS, and so there were no other children that I could be assigned to. And the play therapy professor was like, why don't you just follow me around for the semester, and then you can write a brief paper about that? And I was like, Sure, sure, whatever. And I fell in love with play therapy, so I Yeah, fast forward to today. I loved it so much that I made it into a career and became a registered play therapist supervisor, and now I support therapists, both new and seasoned therapists in their in their careers to either become a registered play therapist or just if they have like curiosities of working with children and teens and or even doing play therapy with adults as well. So
so it really found you?
Yeah, I guess so. I guess so. That's a good point.
So one of the first things that pops to mind for me is, do you feel like you get to play yourself when you're doing play therapy with people? Does it feel serious? And I know, I know the the therapist part of you always has to be holding that kind of meta communicator role and space holding role. But do you also feel like you get to drop into the energy of play as well? Yeah,
absolutely. I mean, we have to remember as play therapists, that play isn't always fun because children are coming in and whether they're processing abuse or domestic violence, or even just maybe just moving from one elementary school to another elementary school, and the loss of friends that play for them is their way of being able to communicate that loss, or being able to communicate the abuse. And so for them, that play isn't necessarily fun, but I do have fun. I mean, I do bring fun play into my work with kids, teens, adults. I also work with a lot of neurodivergent kiddos, and one of the best tools in helping those kiddos learn like frustration tolerance or even mastery of whatever they're doing, is to build in, incorporate movement and play from that. And so we might do some obstacle courses, or we'll do like bouncing the ball back and forth, whatever it might be. So that can be very playful. And I love being able to do that. So yes, like an answer to your question, yes, and no, there's always like a fun play and a let's process through this kind of play.
So yeah, yeah. So can you go into more about what play really is then? Because I think it does conjure up this sort of sense of fun and and like a carefree kind of thing. And you're pointing to the deeper nature of play, of being in the realm of archetypes, being in the realm of dreaming, being in the realm of processing, being in the realm of learning skills and being able to fail or try things out. And so how do you define play as a play therapist?
Yeah, well, the definition of play is much different than the definition of play therapy. So play, when people think of play, they think of incorporating happiness into our worlds, incorporating the lack of stress, right? So play is everything we can think of that just is brings in joy. That definition is much different than the definition of play therapy. And much like other therapists and counselors social workers, we kind of guide our practice by theory. And so there are different theories that guide play therapy. And you're talking, you were mentioning archetypes and dreams, and I'm sitting here going, Oh yeah, like, that sounds Jungian. And like that's, You can also engage Jungian play therapy. That's a whole thing. Like sand tray is a thing. And, you know, being able to to process and also read through or read about the or analyze the play that's being done, or the sand tray that's being done. I'm not an analyzer, per se. That's not my theory of choice. But with that being said, you know play therapy, the general idea is that for children, and I know I mentioned adolescents and adults, but even still, like, think about, if you're an adult, think about, like, the one topic of conversation that just makes you feel so icky inside that you dread you just don't want to have that conversation ever like you would prefer crawling in a hole and just disappearing forever instead of having that conversation. Think about that. If you could utilize an intervention that could express whatever it is that you are trying to avoid that conversation that you're trying to avoid, but also get it out there in the open. That's basically what play therapy is, right? So play for children is the universal language. Children don't have the tools, don't have the words to be able to say, here's what's wrong with me. Here's why I behaved poorly at the dinner table the other night. Play for them shows that, but it's their form of communication, just like if we were to do a sand tray as an adult, which originally sand tray was created for adults, and it's since, you know, transformed into a great tool for everybody. But sand tray for adults, it's their way of like, really putting in out there from what's in their head onto the sand tray, what's going on for them and helping them process through things. So for play therapy, that's exactly what it is for kids. It's a way of expression much easier than forcing words out of our mouths or being able to come up with that sentence or that statement or whatever, and especially when it has to do with feelings. Feelings are so hard to articulate for many people, let alone requesting like a five year old, to say, well, here's what happened today, and here's what I was feeling about it. And you know, I'm really hopeful that tomorrow looks this way, right, because it's just so hard. And so play gives them that space and opportunity to do that, and a play therapist in that realm is the person who can hold that safe space for them, and who can be the trusted person, who could be the the person who they feel comfortable and confident knowing that they will hold, you know, just hold that for them. So that, in my mind, is the difference between play and play therapy. So play is very fun, and it should be used vacations for adults and skiing and, you know, wine tasting and what have you for adults. And like, play for kids is, you know, playing with a ball or building Legos or whatever. And play therapy is a much different approach to the act of play in which it's not always fun. Yeah,
yeah. And for folks who haven't heard of sand tray before, can you just give a little framework of what that is?
yeah, So probably a decade ago, is a decade 100? Yeah,
it's 10. Is it ten? Oh a century, that's what
I was thinking. Thank you. So a century ago, they the people who created sand tray. And I'm awful at I think it's like Dora Calf, or I'm really bad with names. But they, they recognized that, you know, utilizing at first, it was my it was very articulate in nature, in regard to, like, how big the tree has to be, and what colors we have to use, and different entities that we want to represent, water and and land and air and fire and all of those things. So we needed to have some miniatures to incorporate that it and that our our minds are able to kind of put out there, when we use sand tray and miniatures, where our minds are able to put out whatever is underneath so our unconscious, and we're able to put that out into this world that we create, and it helps us process through whatever we've been going through, or whatever we need to process through. So that's, that's kind of the idea. There's a couple of different ways of going about that. There's sand tray, and you could use any kind of sand, you can use any kind of tray, you can use any kind of miniatures, and there's not a lot of analysis happening. And then there's sand play in which, you know, there's, there's a very specific sand tray, and the dimensions are very specific, and the sand is very specific, and the color underneath the sand is blue, always blue, and and there's analysis, and that that sand tray or sand play therapist has to have their own analysis because so it's a very particular thing. But for us who haven't had the sand play training, It's just a way of being able to process what's going on for us. You would be surprised at the amount of process that you could go through when you don't even think you need to process anything. Stuff just comes out and you're like, Wow, that was really a lot, and feels so much better now that I did it, but I didn't even know I needed to do it. So sand tray is really beautiful and wonderful, in itself.
So that seems like one-- you said it was developed for adults--that seems like one really beautiful way to invite adults to drop into play and play therapy. And often adults have had play conditioned out of them. And so I'm curious how you-- like children will just drop into it--how do you invite adults, or maybe teens who are like, I don't play, What are you talking about? Like, how do you invite people at older developmental stages to drop into play? That's
such a good question. First of all, if it's an in person session, I typically have items that are just in this space, and you would be so surprised to learn how many adults who come in pick up an item before they even sit down. Like, I have this Squeezy tube. It's called NeeDoh. It's like, it's like, it always goes back to a square, and it's squeezy, and you could squish it's kind of like a stress ball, but it's like, gush here. And this is always on my desk, because it's just something that I can have in my hand and I can be playful with it. It also helps me kind of process things without having to, like, think really about it. I know that's kind of against one another, thinking and processing, but, but I have a big bowl of fidgets. I have toys in the room. I have a sand tray in the room. But as far as an invitation to play, oftentimes, I'm asking adults and teens what they like to do for fun, and I essentially say, Okay, so that's how you play. And they're like, What? No, that's not wait a second. And so I can incorporate the definition of play into their world just by really learning who they are and what really kind of guides their happiness. And then from there, I don't do a lot of personally, I don't do a lot of play therapy with adults outside of you know, we have a playroom, and children go into the playroom and they they use specific toys within their play therapy session, whereas for adults, I might do sand tray more than I do play therapy, but play is always going to especially with adults and even the geriatric population, there was this huge research about how play therapy was brought into the geriatric population had amazing results, more so than just talk therapy. And so you know if just tossing around a ball is able to bring you joy or and also potentially allow you to process what you've never really had the opportunity to process before. A lot of people, I could go off on tangents, I realized that I'm not very linear in my thinking right now. But people, a lot of people struggle talking eye to eye, right? So, so like eye to eye and then being to communicate like, Oh, here's what happened in my world, especially if it was a traumatic event, it's just so hard. So when there are things that can take away from that pressure, the ability to process those things becomes much easier for adults. And I don't remember what the research article stated, as far as what they did with the geriatric population, what play therapy interventions in particular they did. But the original question was, how do I engage an adult or an adolescent in play? And it's very often times just redefining what play is for them, and being able to say, Oh, you're doing that right now and just offering them that the space to be able to play. I have a it's very small, very small Tupperware of like kinetic sand. And even considering the senses and how we play and incorporate our senses into play, adults will typically grab that and just put their hand in it and kind of make little pyramids and do this that and the other. And I'm like, you're playing right now. And so it's really they're like, oh my gosh, I didn't even think about that. I'm like, Well, that's good. That's the point. That's why, why I did it. So that's very often how I how I incorporate tha. With teens it's a little different, because they're still somewhat playful in nature. So it's much easier to just be like, Hey, let's play a card game, or let's play Jenga, or let's do this that the other so, or like, let's go outside and shoot the hoop, you know, like, let's just do that. And they're like, Okay, yeah, let's do that. Because for it, I mean, anybody in the whole world who would prefer not doing eye contact and talking, especially to an adult, teens are going to be that population. And so if you can remove that pressure, collaging, doing art, whatever it might be that's going to be their jam, and they're going to be into it. So it's not, it's not very difficult to talk a teen into doing play therapy, or some, some type of expressive therapy, outside of just talk therapy,
yeah, and that's beautiful. I work with kinetic sand too, and I'll have it available for people. And sometimes it allows, like, people will say, Oh, I feel immediately more relaxed. Or they'll just start talking about something that they didn't feel like they could talk about, because they have this it's such an incredible sensation. It's like, it's like, if sand was PlayDoh, for anyone who hasn't played with kinetic sand before.
yeah, it is like a it's like a magnet. Like, it's got magnets to one, like, you know, it's just like, you can stretch it, but then it falls apart. And, like, you know. So there's just so many great things about kinetic sand. I'll do slime too. Kids love slime, so we'll make slime, but I work, I am a firm believer about sensory integration, and so if your body feels integrated, then the less opportunity your body is going to have to feel overstimulated and feel overwhelmed. And oftentimes that's the struggle that a lot of our kids are experiencing. There's just so much overwhelm. And so I offer tons of sensory integrated interventions within my my play therapy room. And so, yeah, sensory, I'm sorry, sand tray, or kinetic sand, or I have a big, big basket of, like, those really small, shiny rocks that you can get online when, you know, like, just like a big bag of and they put their hands underneath it, and it's cold and it's heavy, and it's just really enjoyable to feel that. And, I mean, parents come in and they're like, can I just... and I'm like, go right ahead. And so it's really, really fun to see that, because everybody leaves the office feeling better, even if we didn't even, I mean, sometimes there's, you know, treatment plans that are like, well, we need to do X, Y and Z, and even if we didn't talk about X, Y and Z, we're still making progress towards the treatment goals, because they're happier, they're feeling better. And when we're feeling better, things don't tend to our symptoms tend to to reduce over time. So, yeah, just having those things available, without even saying anything, people just gravitate toward it, and they just start using it, and they're like, gosh, I didn't realize we're already at time. I didn't realize I was talking that long or whatever. So it's good to have those things in your office for sure, yeah,
that feels so fundamentally human, like we're so wired to be doing something all the time with our hands, like that's how we evolved. And that seems so
like a no brainer to have in the therapeutic
space. Yeah. And I think just over the course of time too, we've really lost that we've really, I mean, we're not so much hand workers anymore. We're like, you know, sitting on a computer and talking or, like, doing a zoom call or whatever, and it's not so much. I mean, I guess if you're a massage therapist, that's definitely a different story. But so that that incorporation of the. Sensory pieces are are really important.
So I think of that as a form of nourishment. And when I talk to you about coming on the lettuce loves you, you talked about nourishment, the nourishment of attachment and trust and felt safety, can you say a bit more about that as a form of nourishment.
Do you remember being
born?
Yeah, so between the ages of zero to three is when we really learn, develop, establish our sense of safety and attachment, and who do we learn that with, but with our primary caregivers? It could be a biological parent, an adoptive parent. It could be a guardian, a grandparent, what have you. It could be a foster parent, but either way, you're learning what attachment looks like, and felt safety comes with that attachment piece. when I cry, you come, you pick me up. You you hold me. I'm not scared that you're going to drop me because you've never given me that reason to be scared of that before. So I feel safe. I feel like I can trust you. So that all begins between the ages of zero to three. And you know, when I brought up the the idea of that being nourishment, that's nourishment to our bodies, being able to to feel like I can go to this person and know that, not that I'm going to be picked up physically and not dropped, but like emotionally, I can go to that person and talk with them and they they'll hold me in that emotional sense, and I can feel safe in that relationship. I feel this attachment. This bond is a secure attachment that I can go to this person with whatever I need to and this could be a therapist. Ideally, it's not going to be forever, and ideally that therapist teaches you how to attach and create these bonds with people in your world, but that nourishes our bodies. One of the things that I think of when I think about nourishment, both physically and emotionally, I think of a research, research that was done years ago. And I don't know if you know about this particular research, but there was a monkey, a baby monkey, that was put in a cage, yeah, and on one side there was a wire stand in for his mom that had a bottle of milk, and on the other side, it was a terry cloth, very soft stand in for his mom, and he didn't get food anywhere else, but nine times out of 10, or even most, I would say 100 times. I think that's what it said, basically, but that it would go to the terry cloth mother for that emotional support, the softness, the security, versus ever going to drink the bottle. And that speaks a lot to how we nourish our bodies. We nourish our bodies through attachment. We nourish our bodies through that self safety and that security, and how we relate to our people in our world. And once that's broken, that nourishment is broken, and so we need to fill it somehow. And that creates, you know, a whole slew of disorders and issues, but ideally, we're constantly seeking that safety, that trust, that security, with that attachment that we've built, not just with our parents, but with people in our world, our chosen families. What have you.
So how does your golden doodle therapy dog play into that?
She's my emotional support animal. For sure, she's not in here, but usually she's in my office and she's snuggling me, or she for she's just dogs in general, just dogs, right, like, they're amazing. And she just knows when I'm, like, in need of, like, some extra snuggles, and she'll just kind of pop right up and and put her head on my shoulder and just kind of snuggle in. And she does that probably two or three times in the day when I met at my office, I am in the in the throes of of getting her certified as a third therapy dog, but she is trained, and she's amazing with kids. And so this is the second therapy dog that I had. My first therapy dog was a little LhasaApso
and he, he,
I think it was both I was his emotional support, and while he was mine, you know. But I started bringing him to work, and I realized, oh my gosh, the kids literally come to see him, and not me. And so I started, I mean, I'm sure that a like, small percentage of it was me, but, but I started looking into animal assisted therapy and what it would take to like in recognition of like, what's important within Animal Assisted there, because it's not just bringing the animals to the people who are traumatized or have the issues, have, have struggles. It's recognizing when the animal's had too much, you know, so you have to read the person and the animal and really being supportive of both. And so I started looking into how to how to get a certified therapy animal. And so I did that. His name was Simon. He came to work with me every day for seven years, and he was just an amazing addition to my playroom. And, you know, not only did I have people who would come into the room and just immediately feel happy and relaxed, and just like he would jump up in their laps, and he would, you know, they would pet him, and he would fall asleep, and just like, speaking of sensory, just that weight of him on their laps was one thing, kind of like a weighted blanket, and then the softness of his fur, but also just feeling loved and feeling that unconditional positive regard from an animal. And he really brought so much to my playroom that, after he passed on, I told my husband, I want to get a golden doodle. They're bigger, like these big, big stuffed animals that are just, and heavier. And just let to you know and my family they I don't even know how many of them we have in our family anymore, but we have golden retrievers in our family, and I am just not a huge fan of hair, dog hair. When I visit my family, I'm constantly like "Ugh," so I was like, okay, golden doodle, they're also hypoallergenic, which is good for the kids that I see, because I see a lot of neurodivergent kids who also come with allergies. And so, yeah, so that's what we decided. We have Juniper, and she is four years old, and she was trained early, early on, and I'm currently going through the process of arranging for her testing, so that should come along soon. But as far as attachment and nourishment, I mean just being, just existing. She nourishes me at least, and so I assume she's going to do the same for others. Everybody that she meets, they just fall in love with her. And I get asked often, can they just, can she just come home with me? And I'm like, No, she's also my emotional support animal, like I I need her. She makes me happy. I so we actually got her when she was when my youngest son was six months old. And the idea behind that was that, you know, we wanted my son to grow up with a dog and to be able to relate to dogs. I've had kids who've come into my session that are terrified of dogs, and the fact that I had a dog there and was able to show them that dogs can sometimes not be scary, and that you really just It's okay to not be fearful of every single dog. And that was, in and of itself, a beautiful intervention. I didn't want that for my kids, and so she's grown up with kids tugging her tail and me riding her like a horse, and, you know, she's just a patient, wonderful, wonderful dog. And it's taught my kids, too, how to be patient and be able to manage, you know, being around an animal, feeding an animal, taking care of another, you know, species, not just species, but another living thing. So that was really important to me too. So all shapes and forms absolutely, yeah,
and I'm gonna have to talk to you later more about the certification, because I got my golden doodle, and I was like, she's gonna be a therapy dog. She's gonna go to work with me. And I tried to do all this training initially, and she's 14 months old, and she is a wild child, and people meet her and say, Oh, that's the best part of my day. Like she has that sort of unconditional just of so much joy, and she just really makes people's day, like I've seen people look very sad, just just out and about in the community. I don't bring her to work because she lacks manners currently, but she, she has no shortage of enthusiastic love and and it's just, it's such an incredible thing. I think what you're describing, too is such a nourishment for the animal, because they have a job and they have a purpose, and they're not just this pet. They're they're there to really contribute something really specific, and they know what that is. So,
yeah, what I also love is that, I mean, so what people don't understand is that there's three different types of, like, service per se animals that you can, you can have there's the emotional support animal, which I would venture to say that every animal that lives in a home as a pet is an emotional support animal.
I don't know we have a fish,
but you know, there's the emotional support animal. You can have a therapist write a letter if they feel it's appropriate to make sure that you can keep the animal with you, because that brings you joy. That brings you know your symptoms reduced, etc, etc. There's therapy animal, which can be brought into schools, brought into hospitals, libraries, etc. And the sole purpose, their sole purpose is to be pet, loved on, to give love, to just make people happy and to bring a little joy into their day, right? And then there's the service animal, a true service animal who was literally bred and trained to do a job, and that job is to like, let's say, for example, my brother has epilepsy. He has an an epilepsy dog, and so she can, you know, she knows when he he's about to have a seizure. She protects him, or she'll make sure that she gets help, whatever that looks like. So she has a specific job so, or, like a seeing eye dog, make sure that the the blind are being, you know, taken to where they need to go, and given the things that they need to be given, etc. And so those dogs are have a very, very specific job. I know that for my brother, his dog, Bella, when she has her vest on, she knows it's her job. And so you don't pet the dog with the vest that says that they're a service dog. But when that vest is off, man, she will jump in your lap, she will steal your food, whatever it might be. But what was that be a dog, exactly. But for therapy dogs, yeah, their sole purpose is just to make people happy and to just be there for them, and you know, and if it's not happy, at least bring some some contentment into their world, or at least take their mind off of what might be worrying them for a minute a minute or two, but yeah, therapy dogs are the best. What is your favorite part of your work? Oh, gosh. You know, I wear so many hats that I would have to answer that question for each hat, because each hat has a different purpose in my life. You know, as a play therapist, I love to see I do work primarily with children. So we, even though we can do this with adults, children and parents, they're where my heart is, and so I love to see just progress, you know, just happier kids, or parents who just know how to parent a little bit better, or even if it's just differently than they were, and it's, you know, moving mountains, and that attachment we talked about earlier is being created between them and their their child as a as a director, as a supervisor, I love teaching and teacher. I love teaching and I love supporting and helping therapists grow and learn, and just being able to do that makes me, like, super happy. Um, I don't know
if that answered your question. It totally does. And it brings up another question, which is, I would love to talk about parents for a second, because there's so much parenting advice now and there, there's this pressure to be like this perfect parent who's read all the books, who's done all the things, and then your child will be perfect, and your attachment will be perfect, and everything is just going to be so happy and wonderful, and it's this like crushing pressure. And so how do you walk people through the imperfect art of parenting?
I do not stray away from self disclosure. Um, yeah, you know, I when I went into the field, I wasn't going to have kids and and, you know, I would often get asked by the parents who I was seeing in in therapy, well, do you have kids? And I'm like, No, I don't. But, you know, I know. I mean, I have a master's degree and, like, I can be here, don't worry. And it is a different ball game. The minute that you have kids and the minute that you're like,
Oh yeah, that doesn't work.
That doesn't work. Or, like, you know, it might work for this one, but it's not going to work for this one. Or I'm feeling just so frustrated and so depleted of energy that I just don't care anymore, and just, you know, self disclosure to the parents who I'm sitting with, like, oh my gosh, yeah, nope, I did that just the other day. I'm here with you. I wholeheartedly understand where you're at and why you're so frustrated. I get it, and I think that when they see a play therapist who works primarily with children and parents who like, teaches this stuff for a living struggle, which is fine, you could see me struggle all day, I'll be like the first person to tell you I'm struggling. Um. To see me struggle as a parent and come back and be like, yeah, no, no, that, that's true. I did, I did struggle there, and I'm still here, you know, like I'm still fighting, and I'm still trying to be a good parent. There's no such thing as perfect, and I think that that validates them, understanding that, like the Joneses have to keep up with somebody, right? You know, it's not just the Joneses. And so there's always going to be everybody's different, and there's always going to be something, and nobody can be perfect, and that's okay, and there's validation in that. So I think, yeah, that self disclosure piece is like, my, my, my first, my first go to with parents, and I highly encourage them not to read all of the books, because every single book you pick up is going to give you a different message, and it would be really hard to incorporate all of the things I you know, I and through the course of my time as a therapist and as a parent, I've picked out a couple of my favorite books that I often tell parents that to incorporate. And then there's the you know, tried and true, like, I think we just need to let kids be kids, which is hard to remember, especially in this day and age. It's just really difficult, because I think we demand perfection, just as you were discussing earlier. Like everybody really wants perfection, and oftentimes we forget that our children are children, and we often expect them to be more than that. And so that reminder is really important for parents. And then I get into self care, and I tell parents, take care of yourself. You are literally not going to be able to pour from an empty cup. So wherever it is that you get your wine from, fill it up. Just kidding, that's not a funny joke. But where, wherever it is that you get your cup filled, fill it so that you can give to your children, because if your cups not filled, you're going to have lack of patience, you're going to have a short fuse, you're going to feel frustrated and overwhelmed all the time. You're a very important person in this in this situation, and if anything, you're the most important person in this situation. Your children is not going, your child's not going to benefit at all from a disgruntled, disgruntled parent. So let's get you to where you need to be in your mind, body and soul, and then you can move toward taking care of your kids. So
that's what I typically start with.
Thank you. I'm going to share that with a whole bunch of parent friends, and I want to come back to the wine joke, because I think it's funny, not funny, right? I think if somebody has really struggled with addiction and is genuinely using alcohol as a coping mechanism and a way to check out, it's not funny. But I think also for a lot of people, it is just like this, very non addictive, like easy, enjoyable, relaxing, and also social and cultural piece, and you mentioned that you're a Wine Enthusiast, so I'd actually love to know what's your enthusiasm like? What do you love about wine and what's your favorite wine? Self, self
proclaimed Wine Enthusiast.
All of my credentials earlier, wine is not actually one of them, but I love wine. It's so funny. I moved to the Pacific Northwest. I grew up in Los Angeles, and then I went to college in Texas, and then I moved to Pacific Northwest, and my parents came up one weekend, and they were like, we heard a lot about this Pinot Noir. Let's go. Let's go drink some wine. And I was like, I don't want red wine. It's gross. I was like, drinking Gewürztraminer and Riesling, like, whatever the sweetest wine you could give me, I would drink. And we went wine tasting, and I was like, Okay, this Pinot Noir stuff has some some merit to it. And ever since then, which was like 15 years ago, I have just loved wine. And so the more I learn about it, the more I'm like, Oh my gosh. Like the complexity to making wine, to drinking wine. It's so cool. And you can just learn it is a degree, literally in and of itself, that you can take a four year degree on right. And had I known that beforehand, I may have a different career, but I just think it's so neat. So I being in the Pacific Northwest, am a avid Pinot Noir drinker, and I'm very snobby when it comes to Pinot Noir, like I went to Paso Robles in February. And Paso Robles is they have a pretty wonderful wine area. They're known for warmer soiled wines, which you get a lot of the darker reds, like the mevere the gammas. And
they had a Pinot Noir. And I was like,
Don't come at me with that. That's
and it's so funny, because the minute I tasted theirs, I'm like, Okay, I do have a taste for Oregon Pinot Noirs. Like, it just tastes so different. And you can tell, like, if nobody had any Pinot Noir taste in the, you know, Pacific Northwest or whatever, and they were just used to pass a robust and they had Pinot Noir there. It was a delicious wine, right? But for me, I'm snobby when it comes to that wine. So my favorite. That's like, I, I will say, though, that they did a really good I'm a really big fan of my bedre and they do a, is it MGR or RGM or, gosh, now I can't even remember what it's called. This three letters, but it stay. It's a, it's a mix between three different darker red wines, gemein, two of them, and they do really, really good job of that out there. So that was really nice. I can find a wine that I like everywhere, pretty much, but my go to is Pinot Noir. It's delicious, and on a hot summer day, rose a non buttery shard. Yeah,
that's what I read the right place. Then 100%
I am. I didn't even realize it, but I am until i i will say the my parents took me to the Willamette Valley Vineyards, and my first peanut wire that I actually liked was their whole cluster Pinot Noir. And I don't really know if you want me to get into the like specifics, but whole cluster is where they don't take the grapes off of the vine, they just throw it all in there and let it do its thing. Versus other wines, they take it off of the the wood right, like the sticks. So that's a whole cluster, and it was a little bit more sweet than a typical Pinot Noir, and that's why I liked it. But it's definitely opened the door to red wines for me, which is wonderful. I love it because what which is wonderful,
it is, it is, and it's a form of play. I mean, as you're talking about this, I'm thinking of these stories where I'm not a Wine Enthusiast, but I, I grew up drinking wine in the US and my I've had two sort of spontaneous international experiences with wine, where one, I had a friend who got married in Italy and had this incredible dinner at an ancient life like a 500 year old vineyard. Does it qualify as ancient? I don't know what the cutoff is for ancient, not in
Italy, but like, yes, yeah, right. It was really old. We don't have it here, yeah.
And, and I took a first sip of the wine there, and I just went, Oh, this is, this is what people are writing poetry about. Like, this, is this this? Yeah, beyond experience, that is not in American Boxed Wine, in any fiction report,
box wine, you're so funny. Literally, my husband and I met, and he was drinking Boxed Wine, and I make fun of him all the time to this day, because I'm like, come on, you can't marry me and drink box wine. That's not gonna happen. But yeah,
yeah, it's like, it's a whole, it's a whole nother world. It's it's this, it's art, and it's land, and it's culture and and it's this beautiful thing. And then on the flip side, I very spontaneously, I quite accidentally, was in Canada and and just like, stumbled upon an Ice Wine Festival. So when you were talking about the whole cluster, it reminded me of being there, because I didn't know anything about this. I literally just stumbled into it and and they, like, go out on the full moon and harvest the grapes on the full moon, and do a single press of these frozen grapes, and they get, like, a drop per grape. And then it's this, like, super, super sweet wine. So it's ice wine, because it's a frozen grape harvested in the full moon, and it's this total, like, opposite end of the spectrum and and then there's like, everything in between. So I love that you're bringing that in because it's a form of a play. It's a form of grown up play, for
sure, it is. I'm glad that you said that, actually, because then I have more of an excuse. It's research, honey. I just have to go to the wine for play therapy. Yeah, I will say, though the wine in Europe is literally out of this world. I remember sitting in Spain and their table wine, their table wine was poetry, and I'm sitting there like this wine would go for like 150 bucks a bottle in America versus this $2 bottle here, not even it was table wine. It was given to you, like water. I mean, that's just nuts. I need to live out there.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That's the relationship to the land and the plant. Place, and it's so beautiful and and for for anyone who's listening, who feels like there is a history of addiction, or they're avoiding alcohol, there are lots of other entry points into this kind of experience of that. There's just sort of like, broad, artistic, land based cheese, like, there's lots of lots of ways into to that rosemary, Rosemary. Let's talk about rosemary. So what do you love about rosemary? Goes well with lots of foods that go with wine. Exactly.
That's what I was just thinking. I I'm going to tell you a funny story. So I grew up my maiden name is Bonfiglio, which is good son in Italian. And so I really leaned into my Italian roots. I learned how to make food. I make a really, really great Italian Well, of course, it's Italian lasagna. Anyway. So Italian food was always my jam. I love Italian food, man, you put something tomato sauce all day, any whatever. I make my own tomato sauce anyway. Um, then I did 23 in me. Found out I am not a single percent Italian. What? I am not kidding you. And so I'm like, I think I'm just going to continue to lean that way, just because it's like, that's what I was raised as, like I thought I'm Italian anyway, I love Italian food. I love rosemary. I Well, and I love basil too. But I love rosemary. I love the fact that it's such a a hearty plant, and that it can literally grow so many places, and it smells so good. Literally, you can wear it like perfume, and it's just so easy to to have and to use, and it tastes delicious. You could put it on bread. You could put it in oil and dip your bread in it. You can make it into your sauce. You can do whatever. So, yeah, Rosemary is is, I don't know if it's underrated, because really it's in a lot of Italian food, but I also feel like it's just not talked about as much as it should be. I love, like, if I I had a garden at one point and rosemary was, like, not just for the purposes of having it, having an herb in my backyard, but it was for esthetic person purposes as well, because it's just so pretty. So yeah, I love rosemary.
I totally agree with you that Rosemary is underrated. I feel like it's one of those plants that, oh, it's just rosemary, or we put it in everything, or it's a landscaping plant, or people don't drop into it. And there are so many medicinal uses and culinary uses and energetic uses, and it has, it's has such a long standing relationship with humans, and that's just extraordinary.
Yeah, now I feel like eating rosemary. Yeah,
sounds good. I want to chop it up in some olive oil and
speaking of like, a flat bread with rosemary and like, sea salt. Oh, that sounds so yummy. That sounds really good. Yeah, that's my herb of choice, Rosemary. I think it's wonderful. Should be used more. I'm sure that there's, like, a rosemary ice cream out there too. Like, salt and straw probably
had Rosemary ice cream. Yeah, salt and straw probably has had it at some point. Yeah,
yeah. I don't know what the the medicinal purposes are, though, I would love to learn that
there are so many to rosemary. So I just absolutely love that you picked this because it's such a closely integrated plant with the human experience in so many places in the world, like it's so foundational to diet and medicine in so many places. And it's actually this big shrub. It's this big evergreen shrub, and I think a lot of people don't even recognize it when they see it, like it's in landscaping. Actually, quite a lot. I love to walk by and just run my hands through it when I walk past it. Yeah, you do too. It's so lovely. And it's actually in the mint family, which I think a lot of people don't know also, because we just think mint, peppermint, but it's, it's this big shrub that's in the mint family,
which is, and because I do not like mint, yeah,
and it's not minty, right? But it has that aromatic, kind of pungent quality that the family tends to have. And so it used to be its scientific name. Used to be Rosemarinus, officianalis and it recently, recently got changed to Salvia rosemarinus. It drives me nuts when they change the scientific name. So things very hard to memorize them, and then they just change it tells you, um. Yeah, and it's this really warming, drying, pungent plant, but it has all these medicinal properties. And I think that doesn't get talked about enough, where we have all these plants that we use in food that are medicine, that like, food is medicine. When you put rosemary in, it has the aromatic quality. It's carminative, so it's like, good for your digestion, it stimulates circulation. It's hepatic. It's good for your liver. It's anti microbial. So like, good for preventing, like, food poisoning, for example, antiviral. It's antioxidant. It's, this is really cool. It's a stimulating and relaxing nervine. So that means it kind of wakes you up, like stimulates your senses, but not the way coffee does. It's just sort of like this calm alert, but it relaxes your nervous system overall. Sort of like, like, really good therapy. You're just sort of like, you're present, You're not overly wired, but you're alert, but you're also calm and sort of able to respond. They
do that in oils, right? Like, okay, so that makes sense. Rosemary in oils. And what is that called, the oil?
Like, essential oils, yes, thank you. Yeah, yeah. So it's used a lot, but you can also infuse it in an oil. So an essential oil is, like, super concentrated. It's really, really strong and and you actually have to be careful, like a lot of them you can't put directly on your skin, or you can--they're really more like, directly, like medicine, and you have to use them in like, this really targeted way. And also, for anyone listening, since we're talking about pets, a lot cats cannot metabolize essential oils. So if you're an essential oil enthusiast and also a cat enthusiast, you have to be careful in your space, but, but you can also just infuse an oil, like you've probably had in Italian food, like just a rosemary infused olive oil, and you can use that on your body too.
Oh, on your body. I didn't even think about that, but I've done that. I've thrown in garlic and rosemary into olive oil, just let it sit for a while, and then it was great, yeah, but I never thought about doing it on your body. Now that you're telling me all this medicinal stuff about it, I'm gonna have to look more into it and do that. Yeah,
I'd leave the garlic out if you're putting on your body, good
point. It depends on how you want to smell around other people. But
if you're a talent, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.
Yeah, the garlic anyway. Eat enough garlic. You really do. You start to, like, sweat it. Oh, yeah. And so it's a really cool plant in terms of mental stimulation, like, like, it's that sort of calm, relaxed, but it also has been used to help people remember things. It helps your digestion. And so actually just putting it in your food helps you digest your food better. If you have a cold or a flu, you can actually just make rosemary tea, and sip some rosemary tea, and it's got that antiviral property. It's got that aromatic property kind of help clear out your your sinuses, your lungs. It's really good for fungal infections. So you could put, like that rosemary oil actually directly onto a fungal infection. It's used a lot in hair wash. So you can infuse apple cider vinegar with rosemary, and then use that to, like, rinse and condition your hair, and it makes your hair, like, really shiny and beautiful. So that's a really fun. you can pay a lot of money for a product, like, they sell Rosemary apple cider vinegar, but you can just chop up rosemary, put it in apple cider vinegar, let it sit for a couple weeks, and then strain it and do it for a couple bucks on your own hair. And then it's added as food preservation, both in like in home canning and home preservation, but also it's actually used commercially as a natural food preservative in a lot of natural products, because it's so potent in that way, and then to protect your skin, as an herbal steam, like I could just go on and on, it's this incredible plant, and I love that you're bringing it up, because we really just talk about it as, oh, I'm going to sprinkle some rosemary on garlic bread, but you're actually giving yourself this really potent medicine when you do that,
so many excuses to eat more flat bread, yes, exactly,
Italian food, exactly,
that's what Rosemary is really just a good excuse for delicious food.
Yeah, absolutely no. That's really great to learn all of those things. It makes me think too. As a parent, I've thought of so many different ways to to support my little guys in not having to take as much like Tylenol or ibuprofen or, you know, whatever it might be, all of the chemicals just kind of make me cringe. And so I've always looked into alternative. Of ways of, you know, managing those things. And so it's really good to have that in my back pocket, and rosemary just, I'm sure if I put it on their skin, it would just make me hungry all day. But at least it's doing two jobs at once.
It's actually also used to reduce pain, because it reduces inflammation, and so it helps, sort of a traditional use is is reducing arthritic pain, and you can do that internally, or you can put that as an oil on your skin, but it's basically is reducing the inflammation that's leading to the pain. So
interesting. Oh, that's so cool to learn about all that. Well,
thanks for bringing it in. And it's also great for pollinators, so if you love bees, oh, yeah, yeah.
I told my husband that I really wanted some rosemary bushes outside of our house. We had, we have a couple of, like, brick, like, not towers, but pillars, and we had two rather large planters. And I was like, it'd be cool if we just had Rosemary there. And we just haven't gotten around to it. But now I feel like I'm a little motivated to do it. It's talking to you, yeah. I mean, so many things that we could do with rosemary, so we have to do it now, yes, coming out, and, you know, it just makes sense. So
we've covered a lot of ground, and it's been really fun and really playful to talk to you. And I know that you have some workshops coming up on aggression in the playroom and full spectrum play therapy, and you offer continuing education credits for professionals, and you have your own podcast. So can you tell us a little bit about what you've gone on and what you've got going on, and how people can find you and work with you absolutely.
Well, I'll start with how you can find me. You can go to JamieWatsonconsulting.com and that has my events and more information about me. Has some information about play therapy, supervision, consultation, that kind of a thing. But and then my podcast is called All the Feels. I do it with a really great friend of mine, Miranda gambetti. She's a licensed professional counselor and a cadc so a drug and alcohol counselor as well, and we have a lot of fun on that podcast. We talk about every podcast we have, ironically, because she's a CADC [addictions counselor], we have, we introduce a new bottle of wine every podcast. And so we have our wine, and we talk about mental health, just in general. But it is funny, and we are definitely two very enriched souls together in a room so and then you can find that podcast on Instagram. It's called at podcast all the feels. And then my, my Instagram, is a modern play therapist, all one word. And I typically, you know, post information about my trainings, parenting stuff, you know, just anything that, or stuff to support therapists and counselors. And it's just my own little page to kind of put fun resources and things like that on there. So a modern play therapist, is that Instagram? And,
yeah, I think that's it, yeah. And do
you want to say a little bit about the specific workshops you have coming up? Yeah?
Sure. So myself and Marianne Reed, who's also a licensed professional counselor and a registered play therapist, we are putting together a four, four session, 90 minute session series on aggression in the playroom, following Lisa Dion, who created synergetic play therapy, basically a lot of sensory, somatic incorporate incorporation into the playroom. So we'll be talking a lot about how aggression seen in the playroom, and how to handle aggression in the playroom. And then, and that's on the third Monday, starting in April, from 12 to 130 and and then in June, also with Marianne Reed, we did a training last year, and it was at a park in West Linn, Oregon, and it's incorporating nature into your sensory, somatic approaches with your clients. Doesn't matter what age, but ideally, we try to incorporate play into it. And so it is a, technically, a play therapy training, but you can use all of these interventions and these and nature, really, with anybody. And so that is in June, at the end of June, and it is a full day workshop, six hours, six CEUs and. Um, and it is a fun workshop. The reason why we're doing it again was because we had such a great response to the first one, and then we had a lot of people who were really bummed that they couldn't make the first one. So we wanted to offer it again. And it really is a fun time. We literally sit in a park all day. We have everybody, it's out, it's outdoors, so everybody's kind of bundled up or not, depending on the weather, they bring their own lunch, and it's just an opportunity to connect and also be with nature, which, if you are a nature human being, you get why nature is so important. It just really does fill the soul. So typically, you leave a full day workshop in outdoor, you know, spaces feeling pretty rejuvenated. So not only are you earning ces but you're also learning and feeling rejuvenated yourself. So that's at the end of June, called Full Spectrum play therapy workshop. And both of those trainings are listed on my website.
Links to your website and your Instagram are in the show notes so people can click directly. Is there anything that we missed? Is there anything that you want to make sure that people know about you or think about in their lives?
Gosh, that's the, I mean,
that's a really I feel so put on the spot right now, not necessarily, but I, I do think that I do want to thank you for having me on the show. And this is really fun. Just talking about play in general makes me really happy. And I guess my, my, you know, go forth and and conquer. Statement to everybody is to just really be playful and remember that you are a kid at heart we all are, and to incorporate as much joy into your world as you possibly can, and to remember that kids are kids, and to let them be kids. And one thing that I remember somebody telling me was that usually it's it's washable. So if you're worried about the mud, you're worried about the paint, it's okay. It's washable. So yeah, and to be playful with kids in general, that would be my, my, my two cents, moving forward for the day.
Thank you. Well, Jamie, it's been a real joy to talk with you, and I've enjoyed playing, and I thank you for joining me, of course. Thank
you Thanks for listening to the lettuce loves you. Don't forget to like, review and share this podcast so more people can benefit your one small action helps us get these reflections on belonging and nourishment to the people who need to hear them. And I appreciate it more than you know. I have more free offerings at Eco. That's ecospiritualeducation.com/freestuff. This podcast provides educational information about traditional edible and medicinal uses of plants. This should never be construed as medical or dietary advice. Always consult with a medical provider before making dietary changes. The music you've been listening to is Tu B'shvat by Batya Levine, used with permission and a lot of gratitude until next time, remember the lettuce loves you. You belong to the earth, and life really does want To nourish You.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
